OK, so the new balance wasn't working so perfect. We also screwed up a bit by introducing HP tweaks into strategies. Balance is a tricky business, but we're determined to get it right, even if it means annoying the hell out of you with the constant tweaks

Anyway, now all units have the same base HP (7). HP changes were also removed from Tank General and Perfect Defence, so they are now the same as before. There were criticisms that units now feel too much like the same thing, so we attempted to specialize them more. Offensive units got more attack but less defence and the other way round. Some other units are equally good at both things.

Bomber and Stealth also now have more differences. Bomber is 6/6, making it ok at attack, but it's now also able to escort Tanks and other weak units, having a very decent defence. Stealth, on the other hand, is better at attacking, but has weak defence (7/4).

Now, this new balance might still require +1 here and -1 there, but we really hope this would prove to be the last major rearrangement for unit stats.

Here's how the base attack/defence look now:

Militia 3 3
Infantry 4 6
Tank 8 4
Marines 7 3
Battleship 9 7
Submarine 7 6
Stealth 7 4
Bomber 6 6

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Comentarios

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Comentarios: 26   Visitado por: 300 users
24.02.2011 - 16:40
Hmm. I haven't played with the updates yet, but I've got reservations about them. I like the specialization, but now I'm going to have to completely retool my militiablitz tactics. I've also got the hard to shake feeling like defending, in general, isn't going to be nearly as effective as it was before.
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Surviving is the only glory in war.
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24.02.2011 - 18:32
So this changes increase the power of marines and make militia useless?
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Carpathia Squad
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24.02.2011 - 18:37
Yeah, there seems to be no point to militia anymore. I like the differentiation of stealths and bombers though.
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24.02.2011 - 20:23
I also think infantry should have a higher defence with tanks being 8 now and also the lowering of infantry. It just make the game completely offensive and not even trying to play defensively at times. I also agree with Yaddo that militia are completely useless now.
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24.02.2011 - 20:43
Militia are 100% useless. Scores of my brave militiamen died from just a few attacking units. This is like the pre-militia days when the cities you conquered just stayed with 0 units....lol
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24.02.2011 - 21:14
At this point, you might as well remove militia from the game. They're just a waste of money. Defense doesn't exist anymore, outside of defensive lines. And with the HP system being what it is, it's nearly impossible to keep a force of tanks rolling through a map. You lose nearly all of them every attack, even with vast statistical superiority. Which, in turn, means that you'll never get a good sized battle going on in Eurasia games.

Basically, militia is pointless, defense is obsolete and HP is killing tanks.
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Surviving is the only glory in war.
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24.02.2011 - 21:17
After playing a few games I feel like this hurt infantry far too much. Losing that 1 attack point makes them almost useless offensively and the fact that tanks received an attack boost, the 6 defense isn't enough to make it worth it anymore. I think the old 5/6 was better.
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24.02.2011 - 21:38
 r3y
I think there should be some minor adjustments on the bombers/stealths part.

Consider Sky Menace, stealth 9/5, bombers 8/7, that puts my attack as good as tank general, but for defense, with enough cash i can spam build bombers for attack/defense uses that wins most other strats. Considering AA as a deterrence, 150 cost for a bomber vs 180 cost for AA which has limited movement, i think its a wee bit unfair still, now that i can consider using land units (tanks/marines) with attack value of 7.

You might wanna consider penalizing land units a bit more, or reduce defense of bombers for sky menace strat?

Just my 5 cents
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24.02.2011 - 21:41
 r3y
Escrito por Guest14502, 24.02.2011 at 20:43

Militia are 100% useless. Scores of my brave militiamen died from just a few attacking units. This is like the pre-militia days when the cities you conquered just stayed with 0 units....lol


+1

Would be nice to have it back to 3/5, now that offensive units are in the 8-9 range in attack (for most strats) already.
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24.02.2011 - 22:13
A couple of the strategies really depend on keeping up momentum with a moving force and it seems like HP really diminishes the ability to push through with a constant force.
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24.02.2011 - 22:44
 Hawk
I am VERY pleased with the new update, although the militia nerf is a bit depressing. I still think infantry price should be increased but nobody except for me supports this, but the drop in attack is good, particularly to deter infantry spamming, which was rather unfair unti this. I like the new increase in tank attack. Another marine defense drop also wasn't 100% percent necessary, but I don't mind it.
Also, what is going on with the reinforcements???
China has more than 160 reinforcements now. India alone has around 110.
In fact, it seems like everything was given a boost to reinforcements.
What was the point of this (I am just wondering)?
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24.02.2011 - 22:46
Here are my 2 cents... I like it
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24.02.2011 - 23:47
Hawk : the reinforcemenys were too low, with the loss of the new system.
It was a problem when infantry was overpowered, but let's check it now.

Ivan : It wasn't and isn't criticisms, just our thoughts to help you to build a game in beta phase.
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25.02.2011 - 00:54
 Ivan (Administrador)
To those who says Militia are useless just because they have 3/3 now, don't forget that they used to have 3 HP difference with Tanks, but not anymore. Without TG you can still expect to lose 3-4 Tanks on 10 Militias (which is a similar ratio to the old system!). Which I think is fine, they are not supposed to be anything but very basic city defence.

Also, Infantry has +1 defence in cities and defence lines, so most of the time it's 7, not 6.
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25.02.2011 - 02:13
After a first test, we're back to the dynamic game I knew.

I have to say that we now have really different units in their role.A good point.

Just have to test if some sort of stack bonus is back ;p
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25.02.2011 - 05:24
Not perfect, but defenetely better
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Very vicious moderator
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25.02.2011 - 06:02
Escrito por LiodaGobert, 25.02.2011 at 02:13

After a first test, we're back to the dynamic game I knew.


Agree, i think this is better
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25.02.2011 - 08:36
Escrito por Ivan, 25.02.2011 at 00:54

Without TG you can still expect to lose 3-4 Tanks on 10 Militias (which is a similar ratio to the old system!). Which I think is fine, they are not supposed to be anything but very basic city defence.


In my previous game, 12 militia died and only killed a couple enemy tanks, and I lost my city. That is really ineffective. I would support making them stationary (0) range but with higher def stats (4 or 5 ). That way they could actually perform their defense function...

Of course this would ruin guerrilla warfare, but maybe that strat could just add range to militia.
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25.02.2011 - 09:16
While I understand the philosophy behind having increased defense for infantry in cities, the 4/6 statistic while mobile seems to nullify any possibility of a slow, defensive-style expansion (like what was previously possible with Perfect Defense). Are we supposed to build infantry, house them in cities, and expand with tanks at the same time? In many cases that seems to be economically unfeasible, especially given how it's now possible for a few cities (with militia) to stop an entire tank army.
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25.02.2011 - 10:57
 Ivan (Administrador)
The last 2 replies say that "militia is now totally ineffective" and "it's now possible for a few cities (with militia) to stop an entire tank army". Confused.

Anyway, Militia is supposed to be ineffective (and always was). If anything, I think it now has more chances to deal any damage to the attacker.
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25.02.2011 - 11:01
I think its not possible. xD

If few milita is 100 milita xD than okay.
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25.02.2011 - 13:40
OK, maybe we can consider these exceptional cases.
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25.02.2011 - 14:54
What confuse me is, when im attacking with 4 tanks to a neutral city with 3 militia, i lose all tanks and only 2 militia dies.

when i have perfect defense and im attacked by 3 tanks and i have 10 militia i lose all militia and only destroy 1 tank.

btw now perfect defense its unplayable in low money maps. (middle east for example)

low money = no tanks.
no tanks = infantry stacks
infrantry attacking infrantry them both with pd = you need like a 1:2 ratio to win.
low money = gl getting stacks of infantry.

i think perfect defense now is really nerfed, more even before the hit points introduction.

now i dont enjoy playing with perfect defense, tank general or naval strategy. and the hit point thing only worsened it. i fear that, if continues in this direction, i will quit the game. just because i will not enjoy (and i think its reasonable) a game archetipe i LOVE.

that would be sad =(
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25.02.2011 - 15:16
 Ivan (Administrador)
Escrito por Alwar, 25.02.2011 at 14:54

What confuse me is, when im attacking with 4 tanks to a neutral city with 3 militia, i lose all tanks and only 2 militia dies.

when i have perfect defense and im attacked by 3 tanks and i have 10 militia i lose all militia and only destroy 1 tank.

Well, the rolls are still random, so this kind of things is bound to happen. Battle results used to be a lot more random in the old version, btw - now you can more or less predict the outcome.

We're still not sure whether Militia needs a +1 to defence or not - it seems that people think it's either overpowered or underpowered, or both, in your case (huh?).
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25.02.2011 - 15:28
I find the last update fine. Now tanks are really offensive and infantries really defensive, that's the way they were supposed to be since the begin. Before, perfect defense was more like a perfect stats game. Now my Guerrilla's man can stand against it!

I think it's normal to think that updates were bad when your favorite strategy got nerfed, but come on! Deal with it, perfect defense was already too much PERFECT, don't you think?

By the way, there are still some points to correct, but this is a beta version after all, so I will wait for it! Keep up the good job.
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"Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms".
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25.02.2011 - 19:53
Yes. the last update was a shit. i mean, wtf it was too perfect, but now i feel that i cannot expand vs tanks commanders or bomber-guys enough to earn the cash i would need to break in his cap while defending mine

maybe its just me that went full retard and im a noob = /

and Ivan, thats what confuses me, that kind of weird outcome
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